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Should the city lend the developers of the downtown ballpark an additional $15.7 million to help complete the project?
Poll Opened: June 12, 2009
Poll Closes: June 6, 2009
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Reader Comments on this poll
Posted by ( mayhemruckus ) on June 12, 2009 at 1:02 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
I said yes but only because I think the stipulation should be with 20% interest!!! :)
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Posted by ( ernie ) on June 12, 2009 at 1:06 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
File leins on Prim's properties and don't throw good money after bad..given the past track record of the people involved , the city never should have been involved..why do you think the banks will not loan the money..idiots...
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Posted by ( whatevah ) on June 12, 2009 at 2:33 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
You reap what you sow. The City should have never gotten involved in the first place. Now its time to pay the piper.
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Posted by ( ageoldwsresident ) on June 12, 2009 at 2:48 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
I am looking forward to getting this ballpark completed. This will change WInston-Salem for the best for many years to come...I cannot wait!!
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Posted by ( ratputin ) on June 12, 2009 at 3:10 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Mistakes are past. Learn from them and move on. Help them build the park...It's good for the community as a whole.
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Posted by ( whosyourdaddy ) on June 12, 2009 at 3:29 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Definitely yes since the loan won't cost taxpayers any $. It's a pity but the alternative is unacceptable.
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Posted by ( vlw1011 ) on June 12, 2009 at 3:58 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
F I N I S H I T!!!
Let's turn this eye sore into the beautiful ballpark it should be.
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Posted by ( vlw1011 ) on June 12, 2009 at 4:01 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
F I N I S H I T!!!
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Posted by ( TheTruth ) on June 12, 2009 at 4:23 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
The option of having an unfinished hole in the ground is not acceptible. Finish the project and let's get on to some good baseball with the division's first place team.
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Posted by ( jhendrick ) on June 12, 2009 at 4:27 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
I voted YES because I've seen what downtown ballparks can do for a surrounding community. In Greensboro and Durham we've seen a great community develop around their stadiums and attendance shoot up as well. This is a great way for the City of Winston-Salem to show they are serious about improving life for all.
-Joe
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Posted by ( btwright ) on June 12, 2009 at 4:58 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Finish the ballpark. Increase the future tax liability on the ballpark to ease the additional burden on the taxpayers. Why does this cost $20M more than originally proposed?
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Posted by ( TheTruth ) on June 12, 2009 at 6:31 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
The additional cost is for the expansion of an upper level and expanded club level.
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Posted by ( triad ) on June 12, 2009 at 7:13 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
If you Build it I will come
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Posted by ( topspinner ) on June 13, 2009 at 7:55 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
There are few things I don't understand. Where did the extra $18 million dollars go, this is almost 100% over the original budget. According to the article it was due to larger walkways and a kidszone. Who approved this, where was the oversight? Must be a heck of a kidzone.
Has there been any auditing as to where the excess money went? Whose to say that after the City loans (gives) Mr. Prim this money, that he won't be back with his hand out again in 6 months?
I would suggest that the City put many stipulations on the new loan, so they are not in this situation again. One would be to hold Mr. Prim personally liable if the money is not paid back on time. If he does not have the money personally, maybe they could attach part of the assets of Blue Rhino or the team or any other assets that Mr Prim has.
Giving the money to him without any stipulations is foolhardy. He has as much or more to lose in this deal as the city.
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Posted by ( bjlake ) on June 13, 2009 at 11:26 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
I say no to more tax dollars going into the ballpark. There should be an actual referendum for the voters to say if they want more tax dollars put into this project.
We're putting huge amounts of money into the ballpark, but the city and the voters have no say about the project and will not share in the profits or the ownership though we are making a huge investment.
As we have already seen, there is no accountability--the ballpark owner apparently thinks millions of dollars in cost overruns are no problem since the city will bail out the ballpark.
Any further grandiose plans with more cost overuns will again have the owner coming to the city for another handout--or eventually landing the project in foreclosure. We certainly can't keep handing out millions and millions of dollars with no accountability whatsoever.
Again, if voters want this, lets see it in a referendum. Do the voters really want to invest more money in this? Nobody I know thinks this is a good idea.
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Posted by ( ursula ) on June 13, 2009 at 1:35 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
I vote NO. If Prim and his cronies on the city council want to finish the stadium, then let them pay for it. Personally. Out of their OWN pockets. NOT the taxpayers.
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Posted by ( PARussell ) on June 13, 2009 at 6:18 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
I think the poll is front loaded in favor of the mayor and the city council's plan to make it look like they have support...sort of like the WSJ article titled '... but Resigned.' The overwhelming responses to the newspaper articles were---FIND ANOTHER WAY! I think a referendum is in order. Let the people speak.
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Posted by ( middleagedhousewife ) on June 13, 2009 at 6:35 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
69% yes?? Read the comments posted to the earlier article. Then, look around and wonder who would need this poll to say yes. Clearly the people don't want it. Clearly someone desperately wants it to look like we do. Unscientific is right - more like manipulated.
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Posted by ( CaptainMoroni ) on June 13, 2009 at 6:43 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Anyone who votes for this bailout is ignorent of a fundamental law of economics and sound management practice therefore is an economically illiterate person.
I spent 30 years as a University Business Professor, half at UNC-Pembroke, also teaching 3 years at the Babcock School fo Management at WFU. I was the Dean of The Business School at Catawba College also.
This is a perfect example of a "sunk cost" (the economist's term) decision, better known in colloquial language as throwing money after a bad deal.
If anything, the Council should be seeking criminal charges against everyone involved in this boondoggle. There is apparant FRAUD involved!!! Rewarding fraud is STUPID and devasting to the "rule by law" that is the foundation of this Constitutional Republic.
IMO, anyone voting for this bailout ought to be RECALLED but since we don't have that citizen right to do this perhaps a good ol "hanging party" is in order. JUST KIDDING of course.
I'm sure glad I live in Stokes County where sanity rules.
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Posted by ( nc_texan ) on June 13, 2009 at 7:11 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
How out of touch is our mayor and council?? After we pay off the rest of the stadium, then what?? It has been said the Dash must bring in 4000 fans per game to BREAK EVEN at them new stadium. They are averaging about 800 fans per game now, and the owners have alienated the other fans so much, do you really think they will average 4000 fans per night once the new stadium is completed. It doesn't take a moron to figure these numbers and realize we are walking into a money pit, but our mayor can't seem to grasp this concept!
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Posted by ( westend_walter ) on June 13, 2009 at 7:48 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
I think the ballpark is exactly what Winston-Salem needs to pull the community together. There aren't enough affordable options for families looking spend an evening together. The ballpark is right in my backyard and I can't wait to see the finished product.
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Posted by ( jhendrick ) on June 13, 2009 at 9:14 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
I hate to see my fellow city-folk being so negative. I've been to several games and sure, the attendance could be better. That said, trying to stay positive, I looked into what we could expect from attendance when a city builds a new downtown ballpark. I ask anyone else to look at what's happened in Louisville, Memphis or Dayton when a new ballpark is built downtown. Heck, for that matter, check out Greensboro or Raleigh. Before the Grasshoppers opened their new ballpark, nobody was going to games. Now they lead their league in attendance.
This ballpark is going to be one of the best things to happen to Winston-Salem and I have full confidence in the team and their new management company.
-Joe
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Posted by ( fluxblocker ) on June 14, 2009 at 11:30 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
I am a conservative but I also love baseball. Finish the park. It will create jobs and make Winston-Salem a better town all around.
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Posted by ( LetMeExplain ) on June 15, 2009 at 10:58 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
I think a lot of you guys are over looking some very important points.
1. You can't leave the stadium like it is.
2. The only way out of that with the economy the way it is, is for the city to step in and help out.
3. Mr. Prim is trying to give back to the city; he is not trying to cheat it out of money in any way.
4. People are blaming Mr. Prim for circumstance out of his control and then questioning him when he tries to fix those problems.
5. The new stadium will bring increase revenue to Winston-Salem. People will attend games if not to watch the team then at least to check out the new stadium. Also downtown Restaurants will benefit from the new stadium.
6. This is a loan, it is going to be paid back, the city isn't being irresponsible with its money as some of you seem to believe.
The thing is something has to be with the stadium, why not finish what is already started? If you guys want to complain about something, why not complain about Obama's stimulus plain which is doing nothing for the economy. He is the one to blame for the stadium not being completed, not the city of Mr. Prim.
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Posted by ( putterfortune ) on June 15, 2009 at 10:12 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
The taxpayers cannot continue the cycle of bailouts, enough is enough. 28 F/T jobs and possibly 100 or so P/T jobs is not enough impact to justify the 22+ Million the city will have invested. I am a baseball fan, but Mr. Prim and other private investors must be held accountable; too. The solution is to let it sit until more private money is found and that should be the job of Prim and the Mayor. Mayor & some council will be up for re-election. Let's make sure they know how we feel at the polls.
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Posted by ( OneVoice ) on June 16, 2009 at 9:27 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
Let me clarify a couple of things for those in favor of the city building Prim a stadium: 1) In Greensboro, the city ignored maintenance on Memorial Stadium for years to force the "need" for a new stadium. Porta-johns served as bathrooms; toilets overflowed to the point water stood on the floor of the actual bathrooms; the place was just generally nasty. It was no surprise that attendance went up at the new stadium; but it would likely have gone up if they had renovated the old one. "Delayed maintenance" is an oft-used ploy by those who want something new to replace something old. Clemmons Moravian Church did the same thing to justify tearing down the original Clemmons School and Church Building. 2) No taxpayer money was (directly) used to build the stadium in Greensboro. Granted, the powers that be closed a street and sold the developer a county-owned property for a song, but it was the Bryan Foundation - a private entity - that paid the majority for the stadium. 3) Go drive around the stadium in Greensboro and see what you see. You will see numerous vacant properties that were supposed to ride the stadium's coattails to glory, including the now vacant site of the former North State Chevrolet dealership. Development may come, but it will come when it makes ecomonic sense - unless the city steps in and provides funding that private investors know is not a good investment. Brown Investments just backed away from a projected multimillion-dollar project in downtown Greensboro in the shadow of the old stadium. Is it possible that, had the old stadium been renovated, that project would have moved forward? We will never know. I agree with those who have stated that the only support the city needs to give private enterprise is to get out of the way of reasonable development.
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Posted by ( katluver ) on June 16, 2009 at 1:16 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Anybody who voted yes is ignorant of plain old common sense. People are getting laid off left and right, state and city budgets are getting cut, and you want to spend Millions on a ball park? How stupid can you be?
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Posted by ( LetMeExplain ) on June 17, 2009 at 8:12 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
katluver, you have to spend money to make money. Let me explain it once again since obviously people have their own agenda and are not listening to the facts. This is a LOAN, that means no tax payer money will be used. I don't know how thick your skull has to be to not understand this.
You guys who oppose the project think you have so much support but look at the poll, you are only 30%. Last time I check 30% isn't enough to do anything.
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